S05E07: Localization for The Canadian Market

Intro

Hello and welcome to the Translation Company Talk, a weekly podcast show focusing on translation services and the language industry. The Translation Company Talk covers topics of interest for professionals engaged in the business of translation, localization, transcription, interpreting, and language technology. The Translation Company Talk is sponsored by Hybrid Lynx. Your host is Sultan Ghaznawi with today’s episode.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Translation Company Talk. I’m sure you’ve heard that Canada is a bilingual country, that the province of Quebec is a francophone jurisdiction, and that Canada is a global business power. Today we will be discussing the unique Canadian market where local and foreign companies sometimes find it hard to navigate the linguistic regulations and assume English content alone can help them conduct business in Canada.
Joining me to discuss this important topic is Manon Debuire. She is well-traveled from a young age and completed her undergrad at McGill University with research on impact of globalization and cultural diversity on companies, and then pursued a master’s degree in international affairs and diplomacy. She worked for an LSP as an account manager in the U.S., working closely with public schools to develop their language access programs and managing translation projects.

 

She then went on to start her work on the buyer side and joined Lightspeed, a one-stop commerce platform for retail, hospitality, and golf merchants around the world, where she worked as a senior project manager and took on additional responsibilities pertaining to localizing their financial services products and getting them localized ahead of their launches in several countries in EMEA region. Just recently, Manon became Lightspeed’s localization manager, leading her team of four localization professionals within the product team.
Manon is also co-chair of Lightspeed’s wellness employee LED network, as a supporter and advocate for mental health awareness in the workforce. In her free time, Manon leads the global sponsorship team of Women in Localization as a program director, working closely with companies who support the organization.

 

Welcome to this podcast. I’m so excited to have you.

 

Manon Debuire

Yeah, thanks for having me.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Please introduce yourself and tell us what you do.

 

Manon Debuire

Well, thank you for having me here today. I’m originally from France, hence my very French name, but I did my secondary education in the U.S. near Seattle and then moved to Montreal to pursue my university degree here at McGill University. I moved back to the U.S., Boston more specifically, to again pursue more education, doing my master’s in international affairs and diplomacy. After four years in Boston, I moved back to Montreal to reunite with my partner. I have been working for a Canadian tech unicorn here in Montreal, Lightspeed, if any of the listeners know about it.

 

For a little over two years, I started on the project management aspect for both products and customer content, so our knowledge base articles. Officially as of one week ago, I’m transitioning into managing and leading the localization team at Lightspeed. So I’m very excited for this new challenge.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Manon, I’m interested to hear your story about how you found yourself in the localization industry. Can you tell us about how you started?

 

Manon Debuire

So, in terms of my professional experience, I started working at the Seattle and the Boston office of the French American Chamber of Commerce. So, it was my first experience, I would say, working with different cultures and different languages. Then when I graduated from my Master’s, COVID hit, which of course, wasn’t ideal to be looking for a new job.

 

I started working at a language service provider without knowing at that time what the localization industry was. So, to me at that time, from as far as I could see, I could only see the translation part of it, translating documents here and there, mostly for individuals or maybe companies, but I was completely oblivious to how huge this industry was. I remember I kept telling my partner, this is what I’ve been dreaming about. There’s a whole industry about what I’m actually passionate about.

 

So, I was super excited to discover this industry as a whole. Having had the experience also having worked both on the buyer side and the LSP side, it has been a great experience. I can’t wait to continue working within this industry.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Can you talk about some important events or changes in the industry that were important to you personally that you’ve witnessed in terms of like an evolution that changed things significantly?

 

Manon Debuire

You mean besides Bill 96? All jokes aside, I want to dedicate a big shout out to the women in the localization community, because my involvement and the growth of the organization has personally impacted me in so many positive aspects. The numerous leading women that I’ve met through my volunteering in the organization have inspired me in my career journey, in my knowledge of industry trends and best practices. So, I really don’t think I’d be here where I am today if I hadn’t felt so welcome to be part of such an organization. And I would say if the organization hadn’t been supported by such amazing people.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Now, let’s talk about our topic of discussion today. We’re going to be covering localizing content and products for the Canadian market. Please give us a general picture of what is the Canadian market at a high level.

 

Manon Debuire

Canada is an officially bilingual country with both English and French, which creates a ton of opportunities for the localization industry. Obviously, each of the provinces and territories have their own linguistic laws. So, it’s really important to keep in mind when thinking of businesses, whether local or international, to come to business here.

 

There are regulations that are put in place to protect the bilingual nature of Canada. I think most of the emphasis within the market is put on the French-Canadian aspect. There are also opportunities, lots of them, for localizing English Canadian as well.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Please break down the structure of the Canadian localization market. Who are the buyers and sellers? What are their features and specifics?

 

Manon Debuire

Obviously, as a bilingual country, translation companies across Canada find themselves in this advantageous position with having both French and English, having official federal status throughout the country. It creates this legitimate demand for translators in both of those languages. So, in terms of suppliers, we have pretty large LSPs that are based here, whether they’re originally from Canada, or if they have local offices across Canada, as well as freelancers.

 

I think translation companies, maybe especially in Quebec, are at an advantage pertaining to the Canadian translation market with local translators, local specialists that can help clients compared to maybe European companies or outside of Canada that maybe don’t necessarily have these language skills to help companies penetrate the Canadian market.
In terms of buyers, there’s all sorts. I think probably the biggest one has to be the Government, as all federal documents and information has to be officially published in both languages. Then alongside Government, financial institutions, and then we have the multinational and local companies. So, whether you’re only based in Canada, you do have to have everything in both languages, especially here in Quebec. Then the same with multinational products, everything that has to do with your products have to be available in both languages. So again, it goes back to lots of opportunities for work here.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Where does the demand for content originate in Canada? What actually creates the demand?

 

Manon Debuire

I think it goes back to what I was saying in terms of the buyers. We have a demand from both the public and the private sector. So again, public sector, we have the government, the website, every pamphlet, sheets that we can see. Then the private sector, so that the companies that we have, that are providing content for their customers, from a legal standpoint, but then also to connect with their local customers, they also want to be able to provide that information in both languages.

With that large of a demand, there’s such a variety of content that gets put out. So legal tech, job descriptions, marketing texts, websites, social media. Literally everything can be translated here within the Canadian market.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

So, what you’re saying is, that any type of content that has to be created in Canada, if it’s consumed nationally, needs to be in both languages?

 

Manon Debuire

Correct.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

We can’t speak about Canada without talking about regulation, of course. I mean, bilingualism is part of the charter and the laws of Canada, we are a bilingual nation by default. What type of challenges and opportunities does that present for the localization sector?

 

Manon Debuire

I think ironically, what’s an opportunity for a supplier, for an LSP in the localization sector, is a challenge for a buyer. When we’re talking about opportunities, these regulations drive a particularly large volume of content. So, I mentioned websites and social media. These are legal documents. These are huge in volume for an LSP to be able to take part in translating these. A product, everything that encompasses a product, whether it’s a container, the wrapping, any accompanying documents have to be translated in both languages. So, a huge opportunity for content.

 

Now a challenge for mostly, I want to say companies, government, it’s a huge cost. Yes. But for companies, this can be a barrier to entry for businesses who want to expand into Canada, or more specifically in Quebec. Product information has to be available in both languages. So that’s an additional cost for them, if their original source language isn’t English or French. They also are strongly encouraged to have support and customer facing documents available in both languages. So again, another cost added to it.

 

So, either way, if this is creating opportunities, I think for the localization sector, but it’s also seen as a barrier, as a major expense and administrative step for businesses who would like to enter the market.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Let’s talk about the unique localization needs of Quebec as a market. I mean, Quebec is very unique in Canada as a province. What can you tell us about why this market is sensitive to quality?

 

Manon Debuire

Francophones here in Quebec, they feel like a minority in Canada, but they are a majority in the province of Quebec. I was reading an article that said there was about 7 million people, but French Canadians don’t feel Canadian in the same way that English speakers in Canada do. So, I think in Quebec, there’s a growing sentiment that the French language is under threat. It is creating some anxieties here in the province. I’m not pointing fingers or am I an expert in this, but a large part is being led back to immigration because immigration is also the primary fuel for Quebec’s growing population.

 

So, there is this sensitivity, I think, to Anglicism in the province and this desire to protect the French language. I think Bill 96 stems from that desire to prioritize the French language in order to protect it. So, we see a lot of efforts made from a provincial government standpoint to prioritize the regulation of the French language and, tying it back to immigration, to the francization, I think I’m pronouncing that correctly, of immigration.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

There are also specific rules and regulations in Quebec related to language and communication, as you just mentioned. And recently there has been debate about certain changes. You mentioned Bill 96 and so forth. What are your thoughts? Which direction is this discourse of language identity taking us?

 

Manon Debuire

In a way, I totally empathize with the francophone Quebecers here and where they’re coming from. I look a lot at the French language, particularly in the recent debates around reinforcing the French language. I also live in Montreal, so it’s kind of its own little bubble, where I think only 48% of us here in Montreal speak French as a first language, whereas in Quebec it’s more than 78%.

 

So, in my personal opinion, I see these regulations and things like Bill 96 as the French language competing with the English language. For me, I personally don’t think the one has to replace the other. I think, and again, this may be coming from my Montreal bubble, but I think the two can coexist. I think it’s great that we want to prioritize.

 

So, if we’re putting communication out there, putting the French first, and then the English in most stores or out in offices, you’ll see French signs written bigger, and then English that follows a little bit smaller. So, I think that’s totally okay, if we want to put the French as a priority. I just don’t think it should totally erase our communication in English and the English content that we’re also putting out there for those who may not speak the language here in Quebec.

 

As a side point, we’re also seeing some companies and brands that want to expand into Canada and into Quebec, but that are closed off to expanding in Quebec, so they go to Ontario or the rest of the provinces and territories and then they don’t necessarily enter the Quebec market, because of this financial cost surrounding the new Bill 96 enforcement, which I find a little bit unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

How does that adversely affect the business and economics of Quebec? Now, do you think that language is a barrier for economic opportunities?

 

Manon Debuire

Yes, I do. Like I said, I think it’s unfortunate. I think it’s removing these economic opportunities for, as you mentioned, more jobs, essentially more companies to pay taxes to the province. I do understand the counter argument of having more opportunities for the local businesses to expand. I hope that there is kind of a quick pro quo, if I can say, if we’re making it more challenging for companies to enter the Quebec market, that we’re also supporting, and the government helping out more local businesses to be able to grow within Quebec, but also outside of Quebec, that it’s more of a win-win situation, I would say.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Just like Quebec, identity is the heart of the Canadian profile. So, if you’re Canadian you’re very proud. People who identify themselves as Canadians, they proudly reflect diversity, multiculturalism, and multilingualism. Do you think that that has made localization adoption easier in Canada, just because we are so open to languages and identities?

 

Manon Debuire

Yes, I think it has facilitated that first step of Canadians, understanding that there are multi-languages being spoken out there. There are multi-cultures being present in Canada, but also outside of Canada. So, I think it has made it a little bit easier in terms of accepting the diversity and embracing that diversity. Seeing it more within the localization sector of companies understanding and maybe having this prior awareness that if they want to go enter a new market, they want to make sure that they’re having a local approach that can connect with consumers in those other countries.

 

I think the same for Canadians from a personal standpoint, when they go to another country, I think they already have this awareness of being mindful of another culture and other language and things like that.

 

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Sultan Ghaznawi

Let’s zoom out, Manon, and look at the larger picture. Indigenous communities across Canada have many rich and diverse languages and for some to bring the communication needs to the forefront of the Canadian Political discourse. How do you see the localization industry helping bridge that gap?

 

Manon Debuire

More of a straightforward answer, I would say that the localization industry helped produce localized content. I think, mostly coming from the government level to help foster and support those communities. But then also, from an economic point of view, more translation opportunities for LSPs to take a part in and take on these local indigenous communities as experts and as specialists of their own language and their culture, to be able to bring awareness to other communities. Hopefully in the process, create more translator opportunities for these communities to take part in.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Manon, similarly, Canada is a nation of immigrants, as we talked about, and we have many international languages being spoken here. What is the top demand generating languages for localization here?

 

Manon Debuire

I was doing some research into immigration, and I think it was Statista, and they were saying that Canada actually has one of the highest rates per population of new immigrants in the world. As of 2023, there were more than 8 million immigrants with permanent residents here living in Canada, which is about 20% of the population, which is huge. These immigrants don’t come from all English or French-speaking countries. So, there is quite a need, and my guess specifically, from local, provincial, and federal agencies to provide content in other languages. I think the primary goal is accessibility to information.

 

In terms of languages, I researched it a little bit. We have Mandarin, Punjabi, Spanish, Arabic, Tagalog, and Italian. And again, this is coming from Statista. But again, wide variety of languages coming from lots of different regions of the world.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

When we’re talking about immigration, do you think accommodation of languages and cultures have made integration into the Canadian larger society easier? What challenges did it present for the host communities related to localization?

 

Manon Debuire

Yes. I mean, to answer your first question, yes, I find it that it has made integration easier. If you’re entering a new country, it’s already quite daunting, and then you want to be able to have information, like I said, accessibility to information in your own language to know what you need to do, where do you need to go? The immigration process is great once you get there, but then, you have to go to the bank to set up a bank account, you have to go and get your social insurance number.

 

So, these are things that may not be the same process in other countries. That can be quite daunting, especially if you don’t speak the language. So, that’s a challenge within itself. But then having that accessibility to information, whether it’s online, or in person at these institutions, it immediately bridges the gap. And I think that’s something Canada, and I will say the US, is also good at doing it, making sure that the language access is provided to the immigrants.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Thank you, Manon. Let me ask you about product localization. There are many multinationals that sell their global products, such as automotive here in Canada, what type of product localization do they go through to successfully do business here?

 

Manon Debuire

You have to go beyond pure translation of content. I think when we’re talking about more governments, it’s a lot of pure translation, the word to word, translation, but when you’re talking about a product, you have to think about localizing the experience for the local users. So, it goes along the ideal situation of a perfect localized product where it looks like it was created, in that locale for that market originally, but you need to look at, are the features that you’re providing to your customers here in Canada relevant?

 

Especially if you’re coming from maybe Europe, where you’re using this product differently. You also need to look at number formats, date formats. Especially if you’re coming from a country where you’re using a product, you need to look at, from the US here, we use the metric system, and we use Celsius instead of Fahrenheit. So, if your product is using these types of numbers, you need to make sure that they’re properly local to the Canadian market.

 

And then the last point I want to mention is local regulations. I mentioned having French and English, which is, coming from more a linguistic point of view, but then you have fiscalization, for example, here in the different provinces, there are different tax systems, provincial taxes. So, if you’re selling a product to customers that they’re using themselves, you have to make sure that they are compliant with the local laws for their own customers.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Are there Canadian products that are being localized for use outside of Canada? Manon, can you share your thoughts and lessons learned from successful case studies?

 

Manon Debuire

Well, I don’t want to toot my own horn. But I do work for a Canadian company, Lightspeed. We sell a POS system for restaurants and retail stores to operate in different regions. So, we do sell in Asia specific, we sell in Europe. We have to look at what features are we providing within this system that customers are using in different customer. For example, here in Canada and in the U.S. we have a tipping feature for the restaurants. Tipping is not really common or used in Europe, so we won’t be having that feature in that product.

 

We also have to look at, coming from the restaurants, how are menus being organised in different countries and what are the names of menus called.

 

And my last point, looking at consumer behaviour. How are customers paying in different Countries, so the paying tendencies. Here we use a lot of credit cards, but in North America, credit cards are not really a thing. Maybe starting to in Europe, but not really as much. That’s kind of the way we are looking at localizing our product.

 

I know there are lots of other success stories, such as Shopify, Kushta, which is a convenience store. I think they use the brand Circle K maybe abroad. Lululemon, Aritzia. So, there are lots of successful Canadian products being sold out there that sometimes I think people don’t even know come from Canada. So, it’s great success stories there.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Going back to content localization, Manon, what do you have to say about local English localization? Of course, we have unique requirements and different Canadian demographics. How do people actually adapt content into Canadian English?

 

Manon Debuire

So, I’m no expert in the different Canadian demographics. But I will say this, although the Canadians and Americans share a lot in commercial products and pop culture, different brands, they each have their own cultural identity. So, we do see a lot of significant differences, especially when we’re localizing from English US as a source to English Canadian when it comes to linguistic and societal norms.

 

So, the spelling here in Canada, I think it’s maybe more similar to the British where we use the O-U-R instead of O-R for things like color, or the E-R versus the R-E for things like center. I mentioned the metric system that’s very different from the US market. And then we have our own jargon or slang in terms that may not be at all known to Americans, like loonies and toonies for our dollar coins, timmies, which is short for Tim Hortons, which is, I guess, the Dunkin’ Donuts of Canada, things like that. So yes, we have to be mindful of that when we’re doing English localization for Canada.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

How do you see technology fit into this localization discussion? Manon, what are some of the areas that technologies as generative AI could play a role to fill the gap and create an ubiquitous experience for the Canadian consumer when it comes to service delivery or products based on their unique language and cultural attributes?

 

Manon Debuire

Yes, I mean, this is something that we’re still learning lots about. From my very small experience, having worked with such technologies and starting to learn more about things like generative AI, it’s important to use local terminology to feed this engine if we’re using generative AI to use English Canada only content in order for it to be trained.

 

I think there’s definitely lots of work to be done from a more cultural attribute aspect. But in terms of the language, treating English Canadian and French-Canadian as their own languages, just as you would for Spanish from Spain or French from France, things like that. So, feeding that engine with really local terminology so that it trains itself to fill that gap between a source language that may not be English Canadian to English.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Do you feel like there is enough investment in localization by foreign companies beyond what the regulation requires, in order for them to succeed in the Canadian market?

 

Manon Debuire

It’s a good question. I think I’m going to go back to my point about how Canada is usually being grouped with the US as North America, or even, from American companies, they decide to copy their local approach to Canada. Because they speak English, they’re our neighbors. But, we see certain cases like Target, where that doesn’t always work.

 

So, I think there’s investment in the linguistic aspect. I think there should be more investment in recognizing the cultural and societal norms and the different consumer behaviors that are here in Canada compared to those that are in the US, in order to really connect with the local consumers here in Canada, when expanding their business.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Of course, the distinction is quite important, because in Canada everything’s different, the languages are different, cultures are different, people are different. What are your thoughts and advice for global brands and companies planning to enter the Canadian market?

 

Manon Debuire

I’d say engage with local partners, use them as your local specialist, just as you would in any other country. Going back to what I was saying, you have to understand what the consumer trends and the consumer behaviors pertaining to who you’re targeting here in Canada are related to. You can’t just translate, you have to have this properly localized approach.

 

So, do your research, get information about the Canadian market, go back to your original question of why are you entering the Canadian market? What makes it attractive? Who are you trying to target? Kind of work backwards in trying to understand what you’re trying to solve? What are you trying to propose? And really get support from local specialists. So, hire local Canadian resources, translators.

 

I think companies need to consider the strict linguistic laws and regulations that are here in Canada. But they also have to understand the target audience communication style. No one can do better than having specialized local Canadian translators.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Absolutely. Local knowledge, market knowledge, is extremely important and obviously you need to do y our due diligence. As we close, Manon, what message would you like to send to the localization and translation industry about the Canadian market and the opportunities that it presents?

 

Manon Debuire

I think the opportunity is only going to grow. I think the Canadian market from a localization standpoint is only going to get bigger. So, we may see more competition from the LSPs and trying to penetrate the Canadian market and the different opportunities that buyers are providing. I also think that it’s a great opportunity to also put the Canadian market forward from an economic point of view.

 

There are great consumers here. We love having a wide variety of products available to us. I think we shouldn’t be daunted, I think that may be, the word I’m looking for, by the regulations and the strict laws that are implemented here. We should see it as an opportunity. There is a cost associated to that, but there’s also a cost everywhere to enter the market.

 

So, I definitely would encourage businesses to not close the door on Canada or on Quebec because of this daunting trend of regulations and strict linguistic laws.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

What a fascinating and interesting conversation, Manon. Canada is a G7 country and indeed a unique market and our people makes it the best place to live. You are a true leader in the localization space in Canada and I would like to hear more about your experience and knowledge as we move forward. I’m sure everyone who listened to you today learned something that they can apply to their business practices with respect to Canadian languages and culture.

 

With that, let me thank you for your time and for sharing your thoughts with me and the localization industry. Thank you so much.

 

Manon Debuire

Thank you so much, Sultan, for having me and I look forward to continuing the conversation in the future.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Absolutely. Okay, it’s time for my roundup of the interview and my analysis as to what has been discussed. Canada is a unique country with a very strong purchasing power, a very organized and neatly established system of governance, trade and major international power on the world stage. The Canadian society is representative of hundreds of years of immigration and migration from around the world. But from a localization perspective, it is the French language that makes it interesting. Canada’s linguistic duality presents a unique set of challenges and opportunities for businesses and even governments.

 

Quebec, Canada’s francophone province is highly sensitive to the French language quality in its adoption. Some international companies make the mistake of assuming that Parisian French would satisfy the requirements of Quebecois French and that can be a costly mistake. Canada has a thriving, translation and localization industry with a very well structured and organized group of translators and linguists.

 

That brings us to the end of this episode. I hope you liked it. Being a Canadian, this episode is of particular interest to me, and I hope you are able to understand this beautiful country’s demographics and linguistic diversity better.

 

Don’t forget to subscribe to the translation company talk podcast on Apple podcasts, iTunes, Google podcasts, Spotify audible, or your platform of choice and give this episode a good rating.

 

Until next time!

 

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