S03E01: Trends in eLearning Localization

Sultan Ghaznawi 

And it comes down to the client maturity levels as well. There are some clients who’ve been doing eLearning localization for years. Whilst there are some other ones who are just forced into it because of the pandemic, where does an organization like ULG stand in terms of providing that advice and research?

 

Kristin Gutierrez 

I think because ULG in particular, we have a division we have an operational division, the bread and butter of what they’ve always done is learning localization. So, we can confidently go to any client or prospect and say we’ve been there, we’ve been there through all. The things we’ve we’ve used, all the technologies that you might be considering. We have a lot of best practices and we fell forward with a lot of clients to figure out for them what the best case is so the value add that ULG brings to the table is rooted experience in learning with subject matter experts like engineers and program managers who are willing to come to introductory calls and help set the stage for OK like, let’s look at your files, let’s not just talk, you know, generalities, like, let’s look at the specifics and then put a plan in place that’s best for your particular content.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi 

Kristin let’s scope this a bit further. Who are the key players for eLearning? In other words, who buys eLearning localization from us?

 

Kristin Gutierrez 

Yeah, who are the clients?

 

Sultan Ghaznawi 

Exactly like which industries and and which types of clients need this?

 

Kristin Gutierrez 

Sure, good question I, I think it runs the gamut. Right? But it really does. So, but we’re, we’re seeing a lot of it is in consumer goods, in retail, still in manufacturing, in tech, I don’t personally focus on life sciences or Med Dev, but I know that it’s very prevalent in that space too. So, in my world, I think those are some of the key sectors that need it. Anybody from, I mean, it really is like there, there are two types of training, right? Training your internal teams or doing compliance and ethics training. That’s huge, ethics and compliance, especially with everything in diversity and inclusion, right now, there are companies who create ethics and compliance training specifically that they sell it to corporations who then train their employees. 

And then there’s corporations who bring in experts to build and create their own ethics and compliance training to serve their audience, their their employees. But there’s also other training, like we mentioned, onboarding with HR et cetera. So, I think within any organization, I think, generally speaking, in the industry it’s, it’s a lot of like big sector type but then I think also, in the companies, there’s lots of different pockets. I’m working with one organization that’s a manufacturing company that just has like all manufacturing companies, they’re very large and widespread, right? So, we’ve identified to date at least three pockets independent pockets that all sell learning or education services to their employees in some fashion. It’s fascinating, right? One of the departments sells that X sells it profits from it externally.

 

So that’s the thing you’re selling your training and making a profit on it, you can build in the costs for localization to your profit, right? You can partner with a vendor to do the translation and then resell the course that you’re selling not only in English but in X number of languages. Your end client. You’re differentiating yourself from your competitors, because maybe your competitors are still only selling English courses and then your end clients are like wow, this is great, I don’t have to buy an English course and then go have it translated into French face, right? I can just buy an English course plus the FIGS translated courses to serve my needs.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi 

My next question would be in terms of this these SMEs who developed these courses. Are these internal organizations within your client space or could these be an external organization that specializes in developing, learning and training courses? How do they actually understand the value of localization as to what their end clients actually need?

 

Kristin Gutierrez 

That’s a good question. Unfortunately, well, because I think a lot of the answers are it depends, but it really does depend. We’ve seen internal, we’ve seen companies build their own, we’ve also seen them use outside help, and that outside help can be a language services provider or who has expertise in content development. Or it’s literally just another company who does content development, so I think it depends on what their understanding of localization or the value add of localization it really depends if like anything, they’re building it with the end in mind. For so long of my career I focused on and I still do software localization, right? And you see, as you know, you so often come to a company, who’s like we need to translate our product. And like oops, we didn’t internationalize the code because we didn’t think ten years ago when we created this legacy product that it would have to be translated. 

So now they have to go through this giant effort to internationalize or oh my goodness, recreate the product, right? So, it really depends if the learning was developed with the end in mind, if companies now are 2021 and they’re starting to say, oh, I see what my competitors are doing, or oh we need to get ahead of this or oh like the pandemic has changed the way we think, they’re more likely to be recognizing that the end audience isn’t all English speakers, no matter where they live around the world. Actually, the intelligence and the data speaks for itself globally that like if you speak to the customer in their own language, they’re more likely to retain the information, so if companies are developing courses today, likely they have the end in mind and the value add of localization is built into that. Right? But it’s always a great idea to bring a partner like a language services partner into the mix early on to say like these this is what we’re looking at. This is our intended outcome and our initiative for this really is two years from now.

So how do we get to that the outcome in two years from where we’re starting today?

 

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Sultan Ghaznawi 

So, on that note, let’s say there is an organization that has not done localization before and wants to bring in ULG or they want bring in Kristin to come in and give some advice, where to start, where do we go from here? So, what do you do for them? Do you just go and take a snapshot of where things are?

 

Do you do some research as to who their clients are, learn about the internal processes, their products, and how do you interface with their localization teams, which they may have for building products and so forth?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

Great question and you answered it already. But yes, no, I think I think so. If a company is never translated before and they say hey Kristin, like, let’s talk. It is, it is interesting for you to understand from their perspective, what are they trying to gain? What is their intention of the out like? What’s the outcome that they’re trying to achieve and then will work backwards from there in terms of what are their competitors doing, how do they differentiate? Is this a revenue generated income stream for them or is it simply something to respond to a need? Or are they proactively getting ahead, but at the end of the day, it’s still going to be a cost item. Is the executive team and their, you know, management structure, are they bought into this? Is there a budget if they’ve never translated? Have they? Are they? Do they understand what costs and how like a translation, any translation program is cost and what are the various levels you know. What is the education so, so I would simply ask them where they are, and we would start from there.

 

One of the best things I, we love to do with any client is to walk them through an outcomes-based framework. So, in the case of eLearning or simple tech docs right an outcomes-based framework sets you and the client up for a no-fail situation where you’d say now that the education is done, we’re ready to like OK, but really, how much does this cost? Right? We would take a look at sample files or totality of like language expectations, et cetera and not only would we run a budget or cost estimator for them, we would actually start to translate content and see kind of where the outcomes lie. And who they can identify internally as subject matter experts? 

 

Or if we need to add a secondary level of, you know, translation review on top of all of the proofreading and translating that we’re already doing and just make sure that the outcome of the translation is what they expected so that we’re not referring to the word. Table versus desk. Sofa versus couch. We’re simply learning how to speak their language, so that’s the thing this methodology can be applied to. Any subject matter that a trend that a company might say hey like we want to localize and then walking them through this process with a client who’s never translated before. It gives them a little bit more peace of mind. 

And we really like we work at their pace and it stops being a pressured sales environment was like hey, hey remember me, like don’t forget like we sent you a quote like what’s happening because since I worked on the client side what’s likely happening is a series, the conversations about everything under the sun that has to do with your quote and then doesn’t, because at the end of the day, like there’s a big initiative that’s funneling, why they’re asking for this quote? Right? But when you have an outcomes-based framework, you have a series of set conversations pre-scheduled. And you have designated checkpoints and they have actual deliverables and a better understanding of really like what is the intent of the translation. So it’s actually very powerful, so when we’re talking about that engagement. 

 

Sultan Ghaznawi 

How is eLearning localization sales cycle different from other types of localization? 

 

Kristin Gutierrez 

I think it potentially could be a little bit longer only because there’s a lot of moving parts and it depends if the course is ready to go or a lot of times with our clients, they’re still building courses up until the eleventh hour.

The power so we could do pseudo localization, which is also very common in software localization, where you’re plugged in playing like dummy text into the strings or into the content that they’re reloading into their software, that’s building the of course, to make sure that you know if they’re using an industry standard tool like storyline and articulate, it’ll be great, but at least then they can see how the text might expand or contract based on the particular language that they’re translating into, so the pseudo-localization might be something that’s helpful for them up front, and then also the voice over component of eLearning in particular just adds time. Right?

 

If you are looking at machine translation or voice AI, we also recommend an outcomes based, it’s a client just said to me today I like the sound of robotic voices, but I cannot and I actually agree with him, I cannot tell you how these times. Clients, they don’t, they want this, they want to if it’s, if it’s a machine, they still want it to sound like a human. They want the inflection of the tone, and then they have a particular like, I don’t like that female voice. I don’t like that male voice. Right? So there happens to be a process that’s added to eLearning because if it’s a voice over in learning, that requires, like a little bit more like listening for the client to listen the samples and for them to make selections based on what’s going to best serve their audio.

That’s, that’s a very real thing, and that so that just takes time. That takes time in addition to like the voice over aspect of it. While it can work in parallel with the translations, you know everything just adds times. 

 

Sultan Ghaznawi 

So, let’s dig a little bit deeper on that. Well, my next question was around who are the, the clients in terms of top five markets geography-wise, if you drill down, are there differences in terms of eLearning in in the US versus Europe for example or China? How they implement eLearning and localize them?

 

Kristin Gutierrez 

You know, the thing I think that’s interesting is, uhm, I think, you’re going to love this answer. But I think it depends. But what I’ve seen is certain companies have internal learning programs and groups and entire teams that they’re in their entire livelihood. Their job depends on creating the courses and then they partner with their translation vendors and then it’s like a very well-orchestrated machine and their training is like this. Like you and me talking and interacting right now. It’s very real. It’s a very real like feeling versus the other end of the spectrum I have clients who have absolutely outsourced, they’re like we call it stick figures. Right? 

 

They have stick figure-based training because ultimately the argument was made at the executive level. Do they need fully robust, built out programs that’s costing a lot of money? Or can the end audience actually are they still satisfied? Are they just as satisfied with a stick figure, so any company has a choice to use talking head. It’s like avatars and animation as it relates to everything, but especially learning has really evolved, so if you’re typically creating training where there’s a human talking to a computer, talking to herself on a computer, and you know, walking through and then the localization of it is translating the on-screen text plus my voice. Right? And matching the lips and everything like that or can I be a talking head because if I’m a talking head and maybe I’m still me, but a talking head.

 

Like you have so much more flexibility with being able to match the talking head in language because you can play with the computer animation of it. Right? So I I really think it depends on what the outcome is, but that’s the great thing we’ve seen at all, and we have expertise with also, we can really help a client identify like what might be their best fit and the kind of test some things out in that framework.

Sultan Ghaznawi 

Kristin let’s talk about trends. You mentioned about how things are now and we got an education in e-learning. Now do you think the demand for education is on the rise? Will it result in higher demand for virtual education?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

I think so yes, yes, I think I think everybody wants to continue to learn and I think it’s been established that training people, you know what I think is happening is smaller segments, so it’s not just like a huge one-hour training that you have to sit. Through it’s like bite sized micro learnings so it’s five-minute videos ’cause our attention, the problem is we want to keep learning, but our attention span is like no, so how? So how can you take a podcast that’s why we created the Ask the Experts Series and created just like three-minute videos from it. We record a longer video and then the team Is actually going to create within a localization, the media channel is going to create a podcast based on the audio because the other thing with eLearning in general is are you sitting in front of a computer.  Do I have to be captured and captive behind my computer to learn and digest or can some of the stuff be delivered on podcast form and can I go on a walk or do some other things where I’m still engaged and learning, but like at the same time like not just sitting around?  So, I think the biggest trend is creating instead of like 45-minute trainings, it’s creating these bite sized micro learnings. 

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

So, the pandemic and the emerging variants continue to play a role in remote education and remote, what are your thoughts about demand for eLearning localization given these factors?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

My thoughts on eLearning, the demand for eLearning localization is that it will only increase, I think if you’re a vendor who has expertise in this or can kind of rally the team internally to figure out what the pieces are, you will absolutely succeed in terms of ’cause it’s not taking anything away, you’re really adding value.

 

As a vendor, you’re adding value to a client by being able to help them deliver their trainings in other languages. So, I think the pandemic has the… and the stats and the data are out there that the need for localized eLearning is only going to significantly increase over time. 

 

Sultan Ghaznawi 

The world is opening up with new countries, joining the global Internet village on a daily basis. How do you see that affecting the demand for eLearning and as a result?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

I think that the more people are coming online globally that the demand will only continue to increase and one thing that we didn’t talk about was subtitling. Right? So, there are other ways to look at cost pro… you know, if cost is prohibitive, there are in addition to machine and for text and for voice, there’s ways you can just subtitle the text. Right? That requires a learner to actually be engaged and reading. But you know, how do you translate, go from translating into five languages to one hundred without spending X hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars?  

So, you really have to start looking at creative ways and that’s why I think there’s a, there’s a real need and a time and a place for that stick figure-based training because it’s like how, how am I going to digest and absorb the training as like a user would? And then what’s my attention span and then are you speaking to me in my language? These are all factors like being able to communicate to the world at large and working with our partner, like United Language Group who really says OK. Right?  If you need a one hundred languages we’re probably going to want to look at this, if you need three languages and you’re selling this to customers we’re probably going to want to look at that.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi 

So, on the same token, we have new and emerging technologies that may present opportunities for virtual education that we may not have imagined before. A case in point the is metaverse and blockchain. How do you see eLearning localization evolve in that sense next year?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

Ooh, good question. Yeah, I, I think it’s, I think it’s through technology, I really think the evolution of eLearning is through technology. And there are different channels now popping up. Right? We’ve got before there was just video and now you’ve got all these other gamification and so forth. Where should our industry be focusing their efforts on terms of learning where to go for eLearning localization, I think the best thing any LSP can ever do is just ask the question and talk to their prospects or customers. I often find people are really willing if they really don’t feel there’s a threat that you’re trying to sell them. If you really just want to learn then the best thing to do is to identify through LinkedIn or whatever platform. You know people that look or post about, you know, doing certain areas of learning and go out and just have a conversation with them. Ask them what is their approach to learning and how are they tackling these trends ’cause you’re right, gamification is absolutely something like micro learning. That is a trend for 2022 and beyond. Right?

Because am I as a user of learning more engaged if I’m playing a game or kind of interacting with the training along the way? The answer is yes.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

What are the the trends that you see happening next year in terms of the changes that we’ve witnessed in the past year or so?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

I think, I think at the end of the day, it’s like there isn’t a one size fits all to train, meaning, or to the localization approach to training. So, I previously mentioned that let’s look at the totality of what the Learning program that you have is and then per the language put a best fit for it. Is it one hundred percent human or is it a human plus machine? Right? But I think as companies are developing learning there isn’t a one size fits all. Right? One of the clients I just spoke to said we have… what did they say? We have, oh in blended learning, we’re doing a blended learning model so it’s a little bit of textbook based PowerPoint. Maybe it’s a little bit of video and then it’s a little bit of like conferencing like workshop kind of thing. Right? So, we’ll have a platform where people will log in and they’ll engage with each other.

 

So, I think that’s where the trends are going. Is that companies creating learning aren’t… it’s not… it doesn’t all look the same anymore. It’s not in a box. Right? There’s, there’s gamification, there’s micro learning, but then there’s also… like the blended learning. It’s like what is my audience, how is my audience best going to learn? Let’s do that. 

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

So, for those organizations that are on the edge, whether to offer eLearning beyond their English or common language markets, what do you tell them? What is the business case for them to ask their executives to sponsor more markets in 2022?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

So, I say if you talk to a man in his language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to a man in his, if you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language that goes to his heart. So, Nelson Mandela said that. And I think that justifies the need for training in language truly he… I happen to speak English as my first language, but if I didn’t, or if you were requiring me to learn something in Spanish, for example, I would, I would understand or comprehend what I needed to know in order to pass the course. Or, you know, tell my manager yeah, I did the thing, and I checked but truly, if you’re doing scenarios that relate to me or if you’re speaking to me in the language that I prefer to speak, then I’m really going to understand it, and I’m going to go off and probably tell my spouse or my colleagues something that cool that I learned from this training.

How many times have you done that? Right? Like regurgitated something, and that’s often because it resonated with you and the easiest way to resonate with somebody is to speak to them in their own language.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

As you described, eLearning localization is not a cut and paste cookie cutter translation project. What should eLearning and education organizations know about partnering with the right localization provider for this medium of delivery?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

Absolutely great question, really that your partner, you really need a partner who isn’t going to just slap some translations together and send them back. Right? One of my clients said the thing that makes ULG so special is, it really feels like an in same team working on the projects every single time.

 

So being an LSP, small or large, like the idea that consistency of translations like that’s assumed. Right? We’re in business, we retain our clients, we know how to translate things consistently for you. But to give client the feel that you don’t, you you know who your main point of contact is, if you’re talking sales or you know something related to your actual project, I mean you’ve got these key points of contact, but you really feel that there’s a team behind the scenes like supporting your needs. I mean I think that goes with any content type. Right? How do you make your clients feel and how reactive are you to solving their problems and how proactive are you to trying to address needs that they might, you know, have?

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

What are some of the byproducts of eLearning localization that presents opportunities for our industry, the localization industry? For example, I can think of multimedia localization, you mentioned subtitling, summarization is another one, and some upstream activities. What are your thoughts and advice?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

At the end of the day, like a byproduct of your eLearning localization could be the same as the byproduct of other things that you’re translating. Right? So, you’ll have a collected translation memory, you’ll have glossaries, you’ll have… if you’re using machine to translate, you’ll have you’ll be adding to your machine library to make it smarter and more consistent over time. So, you’re really building up assets. I really think machine translation is a huge trend. It’s a, it’s an evolution of a trend for our industry as a whole but especially for content types that historically would have never looked at using machine right.

 

We talked about that at the beginning where historically tech docs very plain Jane written content could be applied using a machine, now this whole entire conversation could literally be transcribed with the click of a button. Right? So, the machine aspect of you doing training, the idea that again, depending on your end end audience. But that it’s good enough and that you can train your engine.

So ULG uses a curated machine, we’re curating a machine based on your particular content, that we’ve translated over the course of time or based on dictionaries and glossaries that we’ve built or have access to. Right? But more importantly, we’re baking your engine smarter and smarter and smarter for you and your content type and we’re retraining the engine and then we’re doing a level of translation and edit on top of the machine. Or a standard practice for our industry would be a post edit on the machine, or you obviously could just leave the machine as is, but as it relates to learning, a translate edit on top of a curated machine or a post edit on top of a curated machine actually gets very favorable results based the outcome based framework or methodologies I’ve done with my clients.

It’s not a size that fits all, nothing is. Right? but I think the biggest byproduct of learning would be, you know, applying a machine translation to it and then letting that engine become smarter over time and now you’re able to tackle this huge mountain of learning that you have, all these PowerPoint decks and the various courses that you’ve created because you’re able to apply a machine and intelligently translate it after the fact and then feed all of that back into the machine so it’s a constant cycle.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

As we reach the end of this interview, Kristin, please share some words of advice, some words of wisdom with our colleagues in the industry. What, what would you like to tell them?

 

Kristin Gutierrez

The eLearning localization is exciting. It’s not something to be intimidated by, there are a lot of moving parts and there are items for consideration. Do you want human voice over or machine voice over? Do you want human translation or machine translation? I really think that if you are selling localization, or, if you’re buying localization, the best approach would be to look at an outcomes based framework.

And let the outcomes of the data do some test translations, run it through a process, let the outcomes speak for itself. You really identify some internal employees or resources who speak those other languages or have your vendor partner you know, put an extra layer of review on top of all of it and then look at look at what the outcomes are. Test a machine and really approach eLearning localization from a perspective of knowledge rather than like I’m just throwing all of this over the wall, and I need translated yesterday.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Well, that was a very interesting and fascinating dive into the world of eLearning localization and predictions for this sector in the next year. I thoroughly enjoyed speaking with you Kristin on this, and and I’m hoping we can cover more topics of this caliber in the coming year. As I always say If we were able to help even one individual or company in our industry through this channel we have hit our goal.

I’ve personally learned a lot and cannot wait to speak with you on this topic in the future. With that, thank you for your time today.

 

Kristin Gutierrez

Thanks for having me, I really appreciate it.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Localization is a support industry for so many other industries. While traditionally localization has been a function of language and predominantly translation dependent, new and innovative solutions and other industries have propelled localization to power more than translation of text. eLearning is a great example, a success story if you will, and since we are talking about trends for next year, localization will be in higher demand to provide remote education.

 

As you heard, the pandemic and frequent variant scares continue to push people back into their home-based work environments. Human resources, corporate policies, sales, marketing, technical, and many other types of training programs will be delivered virtually. Given the ease, that allows central organizations to reach out to their periphery, will make localization even more compelling to train staff in foreign jurisdictions. I believe 2022 will be a great year for eLearning localization.

 

Thank you for listening. This was a fun and quite frankly a very interesting interview for me. I’m sure we all learned something, and armed with the right information, we can start a fresh year. I want to thank you for listening to the Translation Company Talk throughout this year and for your support and advice to make it better.

 

I promise you that 2022 is going to be as interesting and probably more fun. Our industry is good place to be in. 

Don’t forget to subscribe to the Translation Company Talk podcast on Apple Podcasts, iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify or your platform of choice. Give us a thumbs up or five-star rating whatever you’re listening. Keep sending those comments and constructive feedback to make this podcast better and suggest topics or guests that you may want to cover on this podcast until next time.

 

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