S04E02: LSP Opportunities in South America & the Caribbean

Intro

Hello and welcome to the Translation Company Talk, a weekly podcast show focusing on translation services and the language industry. The Translation Company Talk covers topics of interest for professionals engaged in the business of translation, localization, transcription, interpreting, and language technology. The Translation Company Talk is sponsored by HybridLynx. Your host is Sultan Ghaznawi with today’s episode.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Welcome to this episode of the Translation Company Talk podcast. Today we will be discussing business opportunities and challenges for language translation companies in South America and the Caribbean. To speak with me about this subject, I have invited Charles Campbell, who knows this region very well and is a founding member of a regional language services association.

Charles Campbell is the founder and president of the Translation Back Office, a leading provider of project management, translation, and localization services with offices in Argentina, Peru, Thailand, Ukraine, and Vietnam.

Originally from New Zealand, Charles has travelled widely over four continents and has lived for the past 20 years in South America. Charles has been a frequent speaker at public events and conferences, having made presentations in New Jersey, Buenos Aires, London, Rhode Island, San Antonio, San Francisco, Wiesbaden, Lima, and Cordoba. Charles has published two articles in Multilingual Magazine on the Future of Localization Industry and also authored an article on vendor management in the ATA Chronicle.

Charles Campbell has a Bachelor of Arts degree in Spanish from University of Auckland, New Zealand, where he graduated top of his class in 1997. Charles has also completed postgraduate courses at Harvard University and the Universidad Austral and Buenos Aires, Argentina.

 

Charles, welcome to the Translation Company Talk Podcast.

 

Charles Campbell

Thank you. Pleased to be here.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

So happy that you can make it today. For those people listening to you for the first time, please introduce yourself to our audience and share with us a few words about your background.

 

Charles Campbell

Sure. My name is Charles Campbell. I am originally from New Zealand, although I have been living in Latin America, specifically Argentina for almost 30 years now. So, I guess I am more Argentinian than I am a New Zealander. And New Zealand, to give you an idea, is kind of like Canada with a warmer climate and amazing beaches. Sounds pretty good.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Well, I would say Canada is also fairly good. So let us talk about your story. You have been in Argentina for about 30 years. Why do you not share with us your story and how you started your career in the language space as part of that? Well, it is very interesting.

 

Charles Campbell

I did my degree in Spanish at the University of Auckland in New Zealand, and I graduated, and I skipped the graduation ceremony and came back immediately to Latin America to stay for a year and see what happened. And here I am, like it has been literally almost 30 years, I think, this month. So here I am. I am in Argentina. I am in a city called Cordoba, which is in the middle of the country. Cordoba has a very strong export-oriented economy.

 

I originally started out in the language instruction business for the first three years and then transitioned into translation. And in about 2004, I stopped language instruction entirely, only to begin with language instruction again, strangely enough, the circles of life last year. So, in terms of translation, I have been doing translations personally since the mid 1990s. And the company that I founded is now in its 17th year.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Congratulations. That is a career in itself. So, when you take a look at the rear-view mirror and see how this industry has transformed and changed since you started working here, Charles, what stands out to you? What are some of the major events that you think about and think that were significant to you?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, I mean, there are many war stories and funny stories to tell people along the road that for younger people in the audience may seem quite peculiar. And for older listeners, they are going to say, yes, yes, I had that too. For example, we used to get faxes sent to us to translate and they were so hard to read, or a fax of a fax, or a fax of a photocopied fax. I mean, it was just, my gosh, hard work. I remember translating something and the client said, I know it is difficult to read. Just put unintelligible in brackets every time there is something unintelligible. So, I delivered a whole page of unintelligible.

 

Anyway, I can also remember the days when we would get FedEx boxes full of translations that were shipped to us from clients around the world. I do remember one arriving soaking wet. So yes, many, many war stories from the old days.

 

One thing I can say is that every two or three years, we seem to get this kind of doomsday feeling that creeps up on the industry, on the translation, localization, and interpreting industry, where people start saying things in a very foreboding manner. For example, 15 years ago, it was, oh, all translators are going to have to become glorified post editors because translation is going to become part of history with machine translation. Simply has not happened. Another one was translations will be replaced by machine translation entirely. Simply has not happened. And the latest one was that the pandemic was going to wipe us out and that there was not going to be enough work. I know that on-site interpreting took a hit, but document translation and remote interpreting grew during the pandemic. And now more recently, it is the new chat systems. Are they going to replace us? I do not know where all this kind of foreboding talk comes from, but we have survived all these different turns along the road. And that is just natural parts of business as we evolve, as we learn new technologies.

 

Translators have been around for thousands of years, and I really do not see us disappearing anytime soon. But it is amazing how every couple of years people start stirring up talk as if our profession or volume of work were under threat. And I simply do not believe it. There is a huge amount of work and that the drivers behind the creation of this work are very, very strong. So, times are good.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

In preparation for this podcast, we were talking, and you mentioned Vamos Juntos earlier. Tell me more about it. Tell me why now that is a significant event in your career and why is it important to you?

 

Charles Campbell

Gosh, well, Vamos Juntos is a conference that is being organized in Rio de Janeiro for March 24 and March 25, which is actually only three weeks and one day away. I cannot believe it. I cannot believe it. We have been working on it for months. Vamos Juntos is being organized by Juntos, or Juntos in Portuguese, which means together in both Spanish and Portuguese. It is just pronounced differently. Juntos in Spanish, Juntos in Portuguese, which means together. It is the association of language service providers of Latin America and the Caribbean. And we created this association; myself and several other individuals from Mexico, Peru, Puerto Rico, and Brazil with the intention of bringing the industry, the translation, interpreting and localization industry in Latin America and the Caribbean together. We felt that the industry was very disparate, very atomized. People did not even know what was going on in other countries in a way that is totally different from, for example, what happens in Europe or North America, where the Canadian and American industries are very connected.

 

In Europe, you have very longstanding associations on a national level or on a regional level that organize events and bring people together so that they can learn from each other, they can mentor each other, coach each other. In Latin America, that type of organization until now has been non-existent. There has never been a, to the very best of my knowledge at least, an association or an event that has gathered translation, interpreting and localization companies from Latin America and the Caribbean together to discuss their common issues, challenges, share ideas, break bread, get to know each other, and find out more about what is going on in our region of the world. So, that is why we created Juntos as an association to represent the industry in Latin America and the Caribbean, to encourage cooperation, raising the standards of the industry, raising the bar, help create national associations, for example, in Mexico, Colombia, Peru, and other countries where there are currently no national associations like you have in Canada or the US or Spain or Germany or other countries.

 

It has been a lot of work and in order to kickstart the whole process, we have organized Vamos Juntos, which is an on-site, not virtual, conference beachfront in Rio de Janeiro so that we can all get to meet each other, a whole bunch of people who do not know each other, gathering to talk about translation, interpreting and localization.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

About that, I have invited you today to talk about the business climate for LSPs in South America and the Caribbean nations. How is the atmosphere for localization and translation services in that part of the world?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, I can speak on a general level for the region. I can say that it is very busy, very busy times and good business with many local challenges related to uniqueness of Latin America and the Caribbean as a region where you have very strong-handed governments in some countries, governments that lurch to the left, that lurch to the right, democracies under threat, economies that are opening up, economies that are closing down. You have it all in Latin America and, well, you have it all in other parts of the world too, you know, the war in Ukraine and so forth.

 

But Latin America faces a unique number of challenges. A significant number of translations, interpreting and localization companies in Latin America, especially in Argentina and Brazil, have become more internationally export-focused in recent years. The reason why, I believe, is because the local market has become so chaotic that as a question of survival, they have reached out to offer their services as world-class translation, interpreting and localization providers to companies and clients around the world.

 

So, you have a very export-oriented, internationalized industry in Argentina and, to a certain degree, Brazil. And then the rest of Latin America, I am generalizing big time here, there tends to be a greater focus on the local market. So, what we were trying to do with Vamos Juntos is to bring everybody together and to share these experiences so that in the countries where they are currently very domestically focused, they can perhaps see about opportunities to go more international. And in the countries where companies are currently very export-focused, perhaps learn from other examples in the region about developing your local market more. So, it is very exciting.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

You mentioned that they have… there is no uniformity. There are economies opening up, there are ones that are closing, there are all kinds of issues. So, what are some of the unique and regional challenges that LSPs have to confront today in South America and the Caribbean?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, where to begin? First of all, I think that it is important to say that the market is healthy, the industry is healthy and that everyone I talk to, almost everyone is doing very, very well. So that as the tone that I think where we were seeing across the board. In terms of local challenges, they were very specific to each country.

 

But of course, inflation is a big issue throughout Latin America, throughout the world. Dealing with government procurement departments is also a big issue in Latin America. Unfortunately, it is very, very difficult to get government work, which is a very significant part of the income stream of translation companies in Europe and in North America. There are many translation companies I know in the USA, Canada and Europe that focus almost exclusively on government work. That would be very difficult to do in Latin America. So, government work is less important, which means that translation, interpreting and localization companies really have to go out there and look for business and view the globe as a global market. No fear, I believe, is the approach. I am not personally an expert on what is going on the ground in Mexico or in Puerto Rico or in Colombia. And I am really hoping to learn more about these markets precisely at Vamos Juntos in three weeks’ time, where we were going to have speakers from almost every Latin American country and also from North America and Europe.

 

It is going to be a great opportunity for us to get to know what is going on in the other markets. Because if you have ever been to some of the larger conferences in the translation industry in Europe and North America, you will have seen a lot of people from Argentina at these events and to a lesser degree, Brazil. But very few people from the rest of Latin America. I am sure that is going to change. I am sure there is going to be a diversification and growth across the board. I am sure that we were going to see the creation of more national association, for example, in Colombia and Peru and Mexico. I cannot believe it, that there is no national association of translation, interpreting and localization companies in Mexico.

 

So, these are all things to be done, lots of work to do and lots to learn from each other. I myself, I have been in business since the 1990s and I have a huge amount to learn about the very region that has been my bread and butter, the focus of my personal career and so forth. Even though the company I preside, Translation Deck Office, has grown into other regions such as Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe, Latin America is still our origin. And I cannot believe it, there is so much I do not know about these other countries in their own region. Of course, you know, we were not James Bond, we do not travel to five countries in a week, because there is work to be done and families that keep you where you are, but we were lucky to be in an industry where travel can be considered an investment.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Absolutely. Let me ask you to talk a little bit further about these companies or LSPs in this region. They are all facing all kinds of problems, but if they cannot solve these problems by themselves, you named a few of them, for example, dealing with government and so on. I am sure you see a baseline, basically all of them having similarities in terms of the problems they are facing. Do you think an industry body or association can address such issues collectively?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, first of all, as I said, it is a positive mood and a positive climate. So that is what we need to start from. So, Vamos Juntos is all about positivity, about sharing ideas. I do not think it is going to be a moan and groan event, but there are universal issues that I am not sure that Juntos as an association will be able to change.

 

For example, corruption in government procurement in some countries in the region. That is not something that Juntos is really going to be able to change, but it is time to put Latin America and the Caribbean on the map to raise quality standards, to raise the bar, to encourage the adoption of codes of ethics, to encourage increased adoption of quality norms, quality standards, such as ISO, ASTM, and so forth. So, there is a lot to be done and a lot to be learned from each other. But it is important to realize that we are just starting out. We are a new association.

 

Some of the associations in North America and Europe have been around for 20 years. There is one in the UK, ATC, that has been around since 1980. So obviously, there is a long road to be covered for Juntos. And I am excited, but I recognize that there is a lot of work to be done and a lot to be learned. And there are some things that we will not be able to change quickly at all. They may depend on wider societal trends. But the outlook for our industry is very positive. And the number of problems that we face that are common in Latin America and the Caribbean are far more evident than the problems that are unique to one country. We were very much all in the same boat.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Absolutely. Let me ask you about the market in general. What is the interest level in this market from non-regional or non-local LSPs, for example, from North America or Europe? How are they interested? Are they offering their services in the region?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, there is a very strong connection between North America and Latin America and the Caribbean. For example, Puerto Rico is part of the United States, even though it is also part of Latin America. Mexico is in North America, believe it or not. It is funny. Sometimes people think that Mexico is in South America, which is, of course, completely incorrect. There is a lot of interest. A lot of people in the translation, interpreting, and localization space in the United States have some kind of connection to Latin America. Maybe they were born in Latin America. They were in the military in Latin America. They were missionaries in Latin America. They lived in Latin America. Whatever. It is amazing, the degree of connection. In fact, the Association of Language Companies of the United States just recently, one month ago, organized its annual UN Conference in Costa Rica, in Central America. So, the connections between the regions are strong. For logical reasons, connections with Asia are weaker, simply because Asia is further away. But I certainly believe that bridges will be extended to an increasing degree in future years.

 

There is also a very strong connection to Europe, because, well, Spain and Portugal colonized Latin America, and that is why Spanish and Portuguese are by far the two most important languages in Latin America. And that makes for strong connections, too. So, it is not a 100% globally integrated industry, but integration is growing.

 

There are also many translation companies from Latin America that have a branch in Spain or Portugal or in the United States. And there are many big, especially big, international translation and interpreting companies that have offices, particularly in Argentina or Brazil or Chile. So, the opportunities for cooperation, integration, sharing of ideas, learning from each other are basically unlimited.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Charles, I know that there is a good concentration of LSPs based in South America, predominantly in Argentina and Brazil, as you mentioned earlier. You talked about how they are struggling with local issues and so forth. But how much of their business actually comes from the local markets versus how much is exports related? How much of that is sold to foreign markets?

 

Charles Campbell

It is difficult to say. It is difficult to say. I mean, no one has actually collected statistics on this, to the best of my knowledge. What I can tell you is that the industry in Latin America is like an iceberg, where you can only see a small part of the industry, which is hyper visible, especially the Argentinian companies. And there is a very large rest of the iceberg under the water, which is there, but it is just not visible. And that is predominantly the industry in other parts of Latin America. For example, I do not think that there are fewer translators per capita in some countries compared to others. Maybe Argentina has more translators than other countries because it has a long-standing translation tradition. But in, for example, the population of Argentina is about 45 million. Population of Chile is just under 20 million if I am not mistaken. But if you go to an international event, you will find, I do not know, maybe 10 or 20 Argentinian company representatives and nobody at all from Chile. And that does not mean that the Chilean translation industry is non-existent. Just means it is less visible.

 

So, I think that events like Vamos Juntos are going to help companies and people within the ecosystem in Chile, Uruguay, Peru, Ecuador, Central America, Mexico, etc. come out of the woodwork, so to speak, and become more visible and play a more prominent role, at least in terms of what the rest of the world can see.

 

Now, this is directly related to how much they focus on their domestic market. For example, in Chile, their economy is very internationally focused. They export, everything they produce is exported. They have very strong trade ties with the entire world. So, translators are often employed in-house at big corporations. There are several LSPs in Chile. But their business is nurtured by that domestic market. Whereas in Argentina, the local market is so up and down that a lot of Argentinian companies, not all of them, but a lot of them, have chosen to focus on global clients as a more stable way of guaranteeing a steady revenue stream. And it varies from country to country. Brazil would be somewhere in the middle, where historically the local Brazilian market was extremely strong. In recent years, companies have started to look abroad more. Mexico would also be in the middle. So, it is very interesting.

 

We were going to see a lot more activity, a lot of companies that will just pop up on the radar. And it will not be companies that were born yesterday. It will be companies that have been around for 10 or 20 years. It is just they popped up on the international stage recently.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Let us talk about the client-side aspect of translation and localization market in South America and in the Caribbean nations. So, when you look at clients, what type of buyers exist in these markets? So, you mentioned governments earlier, but I am interested to learn more who else is buying translation. Obviously, there is a gap to fill for translation localization. Is it a problem that only local LSPs, for example, can solve? And also, what is the role of industry bodies or association in filling that gap?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, to answer the first part of your question, obviously, depending on different parts of Latin America and the Caribbean, which is an extremely vast region, you will have different industry focuses. For example, almost everybody in Mexico at some stage or another in their career has done a translation for Pemex, the state-controlled or state-owned oil company. And that is just the fact. Pemex has been needing translations for, I do not know, 50 years. And it is a bigger employer of translators and also uses a lot of services of translation companies, not just in Mexico, sometimes in the United States, too. So, there are a lot of opportunities. It just depends on where you are in Latin America.

 

Obviously, in some parts of the continent, tourism is a big driver of translation, hotel websites, government tourism department websites. And other parts of Latin America, for example, in Argentina, especially in Buenos Aires, there are a number of clinical drug trial companies, pharmaceutical companies that, particularly in the pandemic, have increased the number of translators and project managers that they employ. So, for example, in the west of Argentina, in Mendoza and also in Chile, there is a whole group of translators that are specialized in the wine industry and get to drink wine every second day and translate the wine labels and the wine brochures. So, it all depends on where you are in this.

 

I mean, sometimes people forget that Latin America and the Caribbean is a very, very vast region. So, when you think Napoleon went from Paris to, or he tried to go from Paris to Moscow in the early 19th century, Paris to Moscow is like Cordoba to Rio de Janeiro. And then there is like four times more length of Latin America than just that distance. If you want to drive from Tierra del Fuego at the bottom of Argentina and Chile, all the way up to the border between Mexico and the United States, it would take you, I mean, unless you drove extremely fast, it would take you a couple of months. So, it is a very vast region. There is not a very strong level of infrastructure integration. You know, like in Europe, you get on a train, and you go from Paris to London. You know, there is no such equivalence in Latin America. The capital cities, the big cities are not internationally well connected, which is a shame. But of course, distances are just so much longer. That is a challenge. That is a challenge for us. Airfares between Argentina and Brazil, several hundred dollars, even though they are right next to each other. But that is just part of the rules of the game.

 

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Sultan Ghaznawi

I see a lot of LSPs from South America and recently from the Caribbean as well as members of associations already represented very well in association conferences in North America, primarily in the US market, as you talked about a little bit earlier. Do you think that these associations address their specific needs, their regional needs and beyond networking opportunities?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, I mean, every association has its own mission and its own objectives. I really enjoy working in Juntos, learning a lot. And I do believe in the objectives of the association. I believe that the objectives are good for the community and the ecosystem, but they are also good for me on a personal level and on a business level. And I am getting a lot of enjoyment out of it. And I do see a lot of people in Latin America working closely with international associations. For example, Roslyn Famous from Puerto Rico is on the board of Juntos, and she is now also on the board of the Association of Language Companies of the United States. I see a lot of people attending events in North America and Western Europe from Latin America. And I also see a lot of interest from North America and Western Europe in events being organized in Latin America. For example, the Association of Language Companies had its own conference in Costa Rica. It was widely talked about as being the best or one of the best conferences ever. Everyone seemed to really love it. And at Vamos Juntos in Rio, we have a number of speakers and sponsors coming from the United States, Canada, and Europe. So, and a lot of people have told me, you know, I want to be there in 2024, cannot make it this time. You know, maybe you should have organized the event with more advanced notice. Point taken. And, you know, count me in for 2024. So, I see a lot of interest. I think that this interest will grow over time.

 

You know, it is a global industry. We were selling globalization, we were selling localization, we were selling translation, we were producing it. You have a client in Cincinnati, a translator in Québec, a project manager in Argentina, a desktop publisher in Colombia. And, you know, maybe the client itself is split in different cities. It is a global industry. I do believe in local clients. I do believe in supporting your local community. But I think that the translation industry by nature has gone global a long time ago, and the drivers that are behind the work are very global, too. For example, in North America, the growth of refugee and immigrant communities with limited English proficiency, the drive for language access is creating a lot of demand for interpreting and translation, for example. Globalization of corporations from the so-called developed world pushing into emerging markets around the world drives the demand for translations into Vietnamese, into Portuguese, into simplified Chinese, into Turkish and so forth. If globalization were not happening, which is absurd, then the demand for translation would be very minimal. Globalization is not new. Marco Polo traveled halfway around the globe hundreds of years ago. International trade is not new, but it certainly has picked up pace.

 

And now air travel and tourism, families split up around the world. My father lives in Hawaii. My mother lives in New Zealand. It is amazing. And I live in Argentina. And this is just a trend that I think is going to continue and continue. And it makes for a very healthy, dynamic, passionate, and interesting industry.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Charles, for those LSPs that are planning to enter the market, or they want to start up in South America, what kind of challenges do they expect? Is there some sort of a guide available to them to walk them through the process, the red tape and so on in order to become you know to start walking as a baby.

 

Charles Campbell

Well, I do not think there is a guide. Unfortunately, it is not that easy. Starting up an office in a new country, wherever that office may be, is very hard work. For example, in the United States, setting up a business, it is very easy to create a business, you know, 24 hours, 48 hours, you created it. But then dealing with your state taxes, your federal taxes, the legal component of doing business in the United States is proportionally much more complex than it is in other countries. And in each country in Latin America and the Caribbean, there is different rules of the game, different things you can do, different things you cannot do, different things you should not do. There is a lot to bear in mind. It is not an easy region. I do not know what parts of the world are easy, in inverted commas per se, maybe Holland, the Netherlands, you know, New Zealand, the countries, Norway or whatever, that are at the top of the international rankings of easy to do business with.

 

Latin America is not an easy place to do business. There is a lot of challenges. And I think that anyone who wants to set up an office should think very, very carefully about it and about the medium- and long-term commitment that would involve. That said, there are many, many translation and interpreting companies from North America and Western Europe that do have small branches or medium sized branches in Latin America and the Caribbean, sometimes for different reasons, sometimes because they want to sell locally, other times because they want to produce locally, more often than not, because there is some kind of family connection. And if there is a family connection, that can make things a lot, lot easier. But no, there is no single resource that I am aware of that you can just open up and read about starting a translation company in Latin America. And I think it is true that a lot of people who are in Latin America would like to be somewhere else, like, I do not know, Sweden or Québec or Seattle. That is a reality.

 

You know, people are talented people, experienced people are on the move around the world. And the general trend is to move north to countries where living standards are perceived to be higher. You know, that is a trend. I do not think I need any specific statistical information to support that. But you can see an ongoing trend of immigration, for example, from Latin America to Spain, Portugal, the United States. But that is healthy for the industry because that is people creating jobs, moving capital, creating links. I think it is all part of the mix.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Absolutely. Charles, let us focus on the Caribbean area and the many rich cultures and languages that are presented across that massive part of Earth. What are their specific, unique issues and challenges that they have to deal with, which is different from South American countries?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, generally speaking, the markets are smaller and there are several countries in the Caribbean that are basically poorer than other parts of Latin America and North America. And it makes for a difficult local market, a challenging local market. We only have one member of the association at this time from the Caribbean, which is Roslyn Famous, who is on our board, and she is from Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is kind of an unusual case because it is also part of the United States. So, the problems that Puerto Rico faces are different in certain ways to the problems that the Dominican Republic faces, or Haiti faces. Haiti, for example, is, according to the United Nations, the poorest country in the Western hemisphere. So that makes for huge challenges. Nevertheless, there is a lot of demand for Haitian Creole translations. So, there are opportunities everywhere.

 

I am not an expert in the Caribbean. I have not actually been there except on vacations. What I am hoping to learn at Vamos Juntos in Rio in three weeks’ time more about what is going on there. And I am sure there is going to be many problems that are common to us all and other problems that are unique.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

While we were at it, let me ask you about what kind of international challenges exist for companies within South America and in the Caribbean that associations of language companies such as Juntos could address. I mean, getting discounts for other international association events or conferences is one thing. It is a good thing. But what about more pressing issues like making payment methods such as PayPal available to companies in parts of all of this market? What about lobbying and so forth?

 

Charles Campbell

Yes, I think lobbying with the government is a medium- and long-term objective, and it is going to be very hard to identify where to apply the limited resources of the association, because obviously government is on a country-by-country basis. More than lobbying, I think that the main challenge is to raise the bar of standards in Latin America and the Caribbean so that Latin America and the Caribbean has a different image, a better image. I think the image of Latin America and the Caribbean is great. It is far better now than it was 20 years ago.

 

When I started out, everyone would say, well, but are you going to deliver the translation on time or are you going to deliver the translation mañana? There was this kind of ingrained stereotype that Latin Americans never delivered on time. I think that is we have passed that. That is ancient history. And we were at a totally different level of development now. So, I am excited. And I think that associations, I mean, Juntos as an association, is really going to focus on raising the standard in terms of promoting the industry, organizing events. At these events, people are going to network, they are going to mentor, they are going to coach, they are going to benchmark, they are going to improve their companies, they are going to improve themselves. And grow and grow in the right direction. And I think this is going to really help reposition, gradually reposition the industry so that we can charge more and be valued more and be on the map. This is my expectation. This is my hope. And this is what I am working towards.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

With regards to the general purpose of an association or an industry body, do you feel that with better representation in the form of an industry body or association like Juntos, for example, LSPs in the market can find better opportunities and increase their business? I mean, there are associations that exist only by name and do not really serve any purpose beyond just existence. How should associations be delivering value to their membership?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, it is like that Uncle Sam poster where I think it says something like, you know, ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Something like that. Like the association, if you see an association that is representing you and is not really representing you, then get involved. That is what I would say. Juntos is a new association, so we were not quite at that stage of problems yet. We were just trying to get off the ground, get financially solvent, get to grow our membership, organize events. But I do believe that there may be some associations out there that have lost their energy. But I have not been to any association events in recent times where I have come out of them saying, gosh, that was not as good as it used to be. It just has not happened. I see events getting better and better in North America, in Western Europe, and I expect Arrobamos Juntos in Latin America too. I think that people who are organizing these events are hearing the feedback and they are perfecting the process.

 

And in terms of associations, I do not see any moribund, defunct associations out there. Somebody at the Association of Language Companies conference in Las Vegas last year on a panel said there are too many associations. Well, I guess that is up for each individual person to decide where they want to spend their membership money. You cannot afford to be a member of 20 different associations. That is true. It is up for each individual to decide where they want to contribute. And I do not think necessarily that you have to do everything at the same time. For example, if you have a vocation for public service, you could be on the board of your local national association or on a committee for a few years, and then you could volunteer to be on a committee for the Association of Language Companies and leave your responsibilities in your local association. And then at some point later in your career, maybe you will be asked to be on the board of another association and so forth and you evolve over time. Obviously, if you want to do everything at once, you will not get too far.

 

And there has to be volunteers that make these associations motor along. If it were not for the volunteers, there would be no events. Very few people that are behind the scenes in the translation, interpreting the localization industry, organizing events, organizing seminars, webinars, conferences, very few of these people are actually paid. Almost everybody is a volunteer, and almost everybody I know gets a lot out of it. Every now and then I bump into someone who says, I stopped going to events, I am sick of them. Okay, okay, cool. That is fine. That is, you know, if all you have learned everything you need to learn, but I am not there personally yet.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Zooming out of that picture for a moment, Charles, do you think that South America and the Caribbean market, do they offer potential for business for foreign companies so they can form better partnerships with local LSPs? And if so, what are those opportunities?

 

Charles Campbell

I think there are many opportunities. It is, you know, as I said, I am not an expert in every single Latin American country. But until very recently, Latin America was growing at a faster rate than other economies. And it seems to me that there are many, many different opportunities. Interpreting, for example, is totally underdeveloped in Latin America. Sign language interpreting is totally, totally underdeveloped, shamefully underutilized, undersupplied. It is appalling.

 

And I think that there is an immense opportunity to promote language access as a right. And also, as good common sense for corporations. So as a right on a government citizen level, and good common sense for businesses, too. I do remember Don Duchamp’s book where it said something like cannot read will not buy. Yes, for sure. So, the opportunities out there are enormous. And there is going to be steady ongoing growth for translation, interpreting localization companies from Latin America in Latin America, and also opportunities for companies from elsewhere around the world in Latin America.

 

And I also think that companies from Latin America will grow and opportunities in other countries, too. There is going to be a lot of intertwining and intermeshing. I do not know if that is a word in our industry in times to come.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Charles, I am going to ask you a question that you probably have never been asked, but it is existential and important in nature. With climate change and a rapidly rising ocean level, how can LSPs address the communication gap in this very important part of the world? How can associations such as Juntos, for example, help save lives by uniting translation suppliers? And what is our role in fighting this global catastrophe?

 

Charles Campbell

Gosh, that is a big question. I have never been asked it before, but I will endeavor to give you an answer. It is a very, very big problem. And the emerging markets in the world are the ones that are the slowest to adopt climate change policies. For example, electric cars are far more common in Western Europe and North America than they are in Latin America, even though it is Ford and General Motors and Toyota and other companies that are manufacturing both types of cars in both regions. So, it is true that emerging markets have a lot to play in terms of reducing carbon emissions.

 

That said, the technology that is being developed to make these changes is primarily being developed in developed markets. Argentina, for example, has huge lithium reserves for lithium car batteries. And also, big wind farms. Chile has big solar energy farms. So, there is a lot going on. But nevertheless, I do believe that people in North America and Western Europe are more aware on a day-to-day basis of the environment, specifically climate change, as compared to people in emerging markets. I think it is something to do with the primitive needs as described by Maslow. And I am not going to say it is a rich person’s problem versus a poor person’s problem. But in Latin America, 50% of the population is poor or under the poverty line. Generally speaking, this varies from country to country. So, climate change can often seem like a bit of a far-off thing.

 

Translation companies, well, they need to focus on sustainability. I think that associations have a positive role to play in terms of encouraging sustainability, reducing emissions, reducing use of paper. That said, you know, when we get on a plane and we go to an international event, we were a long way away. So, we were burning a lot of carbon there. There is a lot to be done.

 

I do not think that climate change is the priority in Latin America at this time for translation and interpreting and localization companies, nor is it a priority really for the associations, because most of the associations are new. They are still getting going. They are still gathering members. They are still getting their finances in order. But I think you have raised a really valid point. And honestly, I walk away from this conversation thinking about our responsibilities in this regard and how we can pick up the gauntlet that you have thrown down. It is difficult to see perhaps how one little, small translation company can change the world. But, you know, we are in the business of communication. We are in the business of words. And words are very, very powerful. So, we have got to find a way.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Absolutely. Charles, let us talk about economics in this market. You mentioned earlier about how some economies are closing up, some are opening up. There has been a lot of volatility, in particular in countries such as Argentina, for example. How can LSPs find support in handling local issues in this market that were created by the downturn and the post-COVID economy? What is the role of their associations, such as Juntos, for example, or other associations within the region to help them deal or mitigate risks associated with the economy?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, the funny thing is, is the demand for linguistic services, whether it be translation, interpreting or localization, has not gone down at all. It has gone up. So, there is no slump per se after COVID. And for many people, there was no slump during COVID. The obvious exception would be interpreting, on-site interpreting, which suffered badly. So, I do not see any kind of economic downturn or bad times.

 

What is happening and is universal to all sectors of the economy is inflation. And that hits translation companies hard because there is already a scarcity of linguists depending on which language. The scarcity can be either critical, extremely critical, or just moderate. But generally, there is a scarcity of linguists. And if you add in inflation to that mix, 8, 10 percent inflation per year in US dollar terms, it means that there is a lot of flux within the translation production, of the industry. Translators wanting to earn more logically and riding on the back of the demand for their services, wave, pushing for more. And clients saying no. So, they hit loggerheads.

 

And I think that associations have a positive role to play in terms of encouraging companies to endeavor to charge more to their customers so that they can pay more to their employees and pay more to their contractors. Rather than being the ham in the sandwich, where they are squeezed from above and squeezed from below or squeezed from the left and squeezed from the right. If everything is increasing, translation companies will have to increase too. So, I believe that associations do have a positive role. By antitrust norms, associations cannot and should not set prices or anything like that, or even discuss anything related to setting prices. But they can encourage people to stand up and make their voices heard, adopt quality standards, improve the standards of the industry, the quality of the industry, the reputation of the industry, reposition the industry in the region so that it means that it will be easier for local companies to charge more and then be able to pay more. I think that that is a reasonable argument.

 

Our companies have evolved, they have grown. We offer more. We provide more. Better than we used to be. We deserve more. Now it is up to each company to have that talk with their clients. Some clients might say no, and you might just have to walk away. Some clients might say yes. Other clients might say, there is 10 just like you waiting to do this work, Charles. I do not mean you. There is going to be all types of reactions. But if you do not propose a change, then you will not get it.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Charles, how do you see the potential and outlook for this market going into the next 24 to 48 months? Do you see that there is a forum where these topics are discussed?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, not much at the moment because Vamos Juntos is going to be the first regional event in Latin America and the Caribbean ever face-to-face focused on translation, interpreting, localization companies from this region. So, I think that the debate will be lively and active and fun and interesting in Rio, and it will continue thereafter.

 

Right now, a lot of people are debating on their own. But when you debate on your own, it is more like complaining than actually getting out there and getting things done. So, I think that, yes, debate will continue. And it is difficult to say what will happen in the future. I do not have a crystal ball, but I am very optimistic.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

As we reach the end of this conversation, let me ask you about your thoughts and advice for LSP leadership in South America and in the Caribbean and generally around the world. What would you tell them and why?

 

Charles Campbell

Well, it is very difficult for me to offer advice. I am just the founder of one small company in a whole ecosystem. I am not the president of Juntos. I am just on the board as a founding member. So, it is not my place to preach. But what I just said about raising standards, raising the bar, repositioning the industry also applies to your own individual company and to yourself personally. So that would be the general guidelines that I would encourage people to look at.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

That was a great conversation. And I must say, I learned quite a lot about the South American and the Caribbean language services marketplace. Charles, your insights, and thoughts that you shared are greatly appreciated by the podcast and our industry, I am sure. With that, I hope we can do this again sometime. And let me thank you for your time today.

 

Charles Campbell

Sure. Thank you very much. I really enjoyed it, too. It was great to talk. Time flies when you are having fun.

 

Sultan Ghaznawi

Absolutely. Okay, it is time for my roundup of the interview and my analysis as to what has been discussed. As the world is becoming more accessible, I think that South America and the Caribbean countries will be very attractive in the form of a young labor source for the language industry, representing a talent pool that is highly efficient and familiar with the processes and technology used in translation and localization. The proximity and location of this region also makes it an appropriate choice for North American and European companies to work with companies in this area because of times on advantage, besides many other factors. Organizations such as the Association of Language Services of Latin America and the Caribbean or Juntos, as it is known, are important as they will bridge the link between the regional LSPs and with associations that are abroad and defining a baseline standard for quality of service for organizations within this region.

 

That brings us to the end of this interview. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Charles Campbell and hopefully you were able to learn about this market enough to think about business in this region with LSPs based there as well as about the Association of Language Services of Latin America and the Caribbean, also known as Juntos, which is hosting their first ever international conference on March 24th and 25th. Make sure to visit their website at www.juntoslatam.org.

 

Do not forget to subscribe to the Translation Company Talk Podcast on Apple Podcasts, iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or your platform of choice and promote this episode by sharing it on social media, giving us a like or thumbs up or adding your comments.

Until next time!

 

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